Moral Relativism to the Point of Idiocy

In the comments section to this post by Marc Cooper, there is a series of comments by someone going by the name of "Steve" who seems determined to make the case that the human rights abuses committed by Castro are not equal to those committed by Pinochet. He offers no proof (despite citing Amnesty International reports, though not citing anything specific) and when those who choose to contest his claim, we are accused of being "loopy", "paranoid" and "dishonest", still without a fact from Steve wending its way into the discussion.

As Marc said in the discussion, this is indeed asinine and I would make the case that it is purely the argument of the moral relativist. What does it matter, ultimately as to whose human rights record is "worse?" When I was doing training for Amnesty International we never compared countries in terms of their level of human rights abuses. There is only one number of acceptable torture victims, there is only one number acceptable of persons being imprisoned for the non-violent expression of their beliefs: zero.

Any attempts to equivocate, any attempts to rationalize, any attempts to excuse because one feels some support for the political goals of any one leader whether their name is Pinochet, Chávez, Castro, Videla, Aliyev, Karimov, Putin, Musharaf, etc., damages the cause of human rights everywhere and lends credence to charges of moral relativism and hypocrisy. There should be but one standard for these abuses: zero tolerance.

Comments

[steve]

exactly how to you get to interpreting steve from 'castro not equal to pinochet' to 'all torture is ok'? it would seem the key point he is making is that making inaccurate claims does the cause of human rights little good. what is, praytell, 'morally relative' about such a point? or idiotic even?

[Randy Paul]

exactly how to you get to interpreting steve from 'castro not equal to pinochet' to 'all torture is ok'?

Never said that. You are of the opinion that claims of equal human rights abuses by Pinochet and Castro are inaccurate and I am of the opinion that as torture has taken place under both regimes, as extrajudicial executions have taken place under both regimes and as imprisonment for the nonviolent expression of the prisoners' beliefs took place under both regimes, their respective human rights records are equally appalling and that ultimately, the question of volume here doesn't matter.

If you want to continue to flail this dead horse, that Pinochet I suggest that you get your own blog. I'm through with this.

[Joel]

It's very dangerous to fall into the trap of comparing numbers of victims. By saying "We're not nearly so bad as [fill in the blank]" you are not eliminating torture, only getting away with as much as you can.

Well said, Randy.

[steve]

joel,
in other words, when Cuban exiles make stuff up about Cuba, or Kuwaiti ambassadors' children make up stuff about incubator babies, etc...., we should just pretend what they are saying is real, true. that's not a serious way to deal with human rights.

[Randy Paul]

Steve,

You assume facts not in evidence and you are making a comparison that is beyond mere disingenuosuness.

Yes, the Kuwaiti claims were fabricated. You have yet to provide any evidence (and just making the claim is not evidence, it's an opinion and I'm sure you know the old saying about opinions) that the claims of human rights abuses in Cuba by exiles are fabricated.

If you want to ignore the Committee to Protect Journalists, Amnesty International, Reporters without Borders (which describes Cuba as "The world's biggest prison for journalists"), Human Rights Watch, the">http://www.oas.org/OASpage/humanrights.htm">the InterAmerican Commission on Human Rights and International PEN among others, you only make yourself look silly.

[steve]

Yes, the Kuwaiti claims were fabricated. You have yet to provide any evidence (and just making the claim is not evidence, it's an opinion and I'm sure you know the old saying about opinions) that the claims of human rights abuses in Cuba by exiles are fabricated.

--you can't be serious, there's no evidence that Cuban exiles fabricate evidence? where have you been?
--------------------------------
If you want to ignore the Committee to Protect Journalists, Amnesty International, Reporters without Borders (which describes Cuba as "The world's biggest prison for journalists"), Human Rights Watch, the InterAmerican Commission on Human Rights and International PEN among others, you only make yourself look silly.

--I don't, you make yourself look silly when you compare the extent of human rights violations to Chile's Pinochet. If we take your comparison seriously, then Mexico is also like Pinochet's Chile, ditto Haiti, Dominican Republic,...No serious person would believe you.

[steve]

btw, just listen to the leadership of the Cuban exile groups in the US on any radio talk show program or TV program discuss the 'reasons' they believe the embargo of Cuba should continue, they will say almost anything about Cuba to justify their position, no matter how ludicrous.

[Randy Paul]

you can't be serious, there's no evidence that Cuban exiles fabricate evidence? where have you been?

That's not evidence.

I don't, you make yourself look silly when you compare the extent of human rights violations to Chile's Pinochet. If we take your comparison seriously, then Mexico is also like Pinochet's Chile, ditto Haiti, Dominican Republic,...No serious person would believe you.

Methinks the lady doth protest too much.

[steve]

That's not evidence.

--I invite you to listen to any program that Minnesota Public Radio has had on the topic, be it its Midmorning or Midday talkshow, the claims the exiles make on the program are as silly as the incubator babies claims or as out of touch with reality as the "Castro=Pinochet" claim.

[Randy Paul]

Still not evidence, Steve. You have never made a citation of a specific program, publication or source to back up a claim of yours. And you wonder why I think you're a troll.

[steve]

Still not evidence, Steve. You have never made a citation of a specific program, publication or source to back up a claim of yours. And you wonder why I think you're a troll.

--in this case, the claim you make is so bizarre, why would i want to waste any time finding the exact document from the exact publications? next you'll be asking me for proof that mexico isn't like Pinochet's Chile or the Dominican Republic isn't like Montt's Guatemala. The claims are not worthy of much more than pointing out their absurdity.

[Randy Paul]

in this case, the claim you make is so bizarre, why would i want to waste any time finding the exact document from the exact publications?

Yes Steve, just take your marbles and go home. the only claim being made here have been yours. If you're going to make a claim, back it up. If not don't post here.